...i haven't got a clue, but i've asked my brother, who really does know these things. His answer is rather interesting.
Firstly, it's not in a cycle (a time signature), unless it's a very long one; the time signature is shifting every bar. Most interestingly, and importantly, you can tap your toe to it, which means it has a clean pulse. It's not impossible to write it in 4/4, but it's probably written in 2/4, 3/4, and 4/4, as that would be the most elegant way of doing it; (contd.)...
...but with occasional 3/8 or something thrown in, as evidenced by a slight irregularity in the pulse. He says that 1/4 is a good guess, but completely wrong, because the '1' is actually this pulse generated by this series of differently timed bars. And he's pretty confident about all that, so my money's on what he says. i could supply references, if you wish... ;-)
(cc: @tjehan )
@tjehan ...well, he was pretty confident that it wasn't in 1/anything exactly, but i'll happily admit, i'm personally out of my depth, and as i am patently NOT my brother (he's the sensible one), i'm gonna bow out and hope this information helps in some small way. David Lang's not on TIMJ, is he...?
In all seriousness, this is obviously a series of measures at various time signatures as is common in modern music. It might go from a few bars in 4/4 to a 3/4, followed by a 7/8. There's no answer to my original question... An automatic system would hopefully answer 1/4 (or 1/8) as a canonical solution, since there's no right answer. Even pop songs such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOqTIaau3o or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs are complex structures without an answer.
@tjehan ...see, i didn't even get your 1/8 joke till after you pointed it out! tsk, musical ignoramus *rollseyes
Personally, i love shakuhachi music, not a tempo in sight, just a series of independently executed breaths that take as long as they need to, but i digress. Thank you very much for the lesson (and an excuse to hassle my brother), i'm so gonna follow you now, it is a decided pleasure to meet someone who really knows what they're talking about, lrzp...
@ZenPyramid@tjehan i don't think the subdivision is x/8, it's got a very strong quarter beat. Considering the first bar might be opening with a 1/4 anacrusis, the piece might be scored in 2/4, which would confirm the intuition that, despite the constant syncopation and irregularity, it's actually very steady and firm in rhythm.
@JonsBeard ...apparently, saying 1/anything is meaningless, in the same way that one doesn't count as a factor, 'cos everything can be divided by it. 1/8 is the same as 1/4 or 1/17, etc, as every bar contains but a single crotchet. At least if i understand my brother correctly...
16 Comments (since 6 Mar 2012)
tjehan
and the time signature is?
ndreasa
@tjehan, not entirely sure, but leaning towards simple 4/4. What's your bet?
tjehan
Was lucky enough to work with BMOP and Gil Rose back in the day... I put 6 computers on stage and made even more noise than the entire orchestra.
tjehan
I think it's in 1/4
ndreasa
@tjehan I think you're right
ZenPyramid
...i haven't got a clue, but i've asked my brother, who really does know these things. His answer is rather interesting. Firstly, it's not in a cycle (a time signature), unless it's a very long one; the time signature is shifting every bar. Most interestingly, and importantly, you can tap your toe to it, which means it has a clean pulse. It's not impossible to write it in 4/4, but it's probably written in 2/4, 3/4, and 4/4, as that would be the most elegant way of doing it; (contd.)...
ZenPyramid
...but with occasional 3/8 or something thrown in, as evidenced by a slight irregularity in the pulse. He says that 1/4 is a good guess, but completely wrong, because the '1' is actually this pulse generated by this series of differently timed bars. And he's pretty confident about all that, so my money's on what he says. i could supply references, if you wish... ;-) (cc: @tjehan )
tjehan
correction, it's in 1/8 :) (cc: @ZenPyramid)
ZenPyramid
@tjehan ...well, he was pretty confident that it wasn't in 1/anything exactly, but i'll happily admit, i'm personally out of my depth, and as i am patently NOT my brother (he's the sensible one), i'm gonna bow out and hope this information helps in some small way. David Lang's not on TIMJ, is he...?
tjehan
In all seriousness, this is obviously a series of measures at various time signatures as is common in modern music. It might go from a few bars in 4/4 to a 3/4, followed by a 7/8. There's no answer to my original question... An automatic system would hopefully answer 1/4 (or 1/8) as a canonical solution, since there's no right answer. Even pop songs such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOqTIaau3o or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7R7q1lSZfs are complex structures without an answer.
tjehan
@ZenPyramid Compare that to a moving tempo. What's the tempo here? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK5X_Mb9daM There's no single right answer. :)
ZenPyramid
@tjehan ...see, i didn't even get your 1/8 joke till after you pointed it out! tsk, musical ignoramus *rollseyes Personally, i love shakuhachi music, not a tempo in sight, just a series of independently executed breaths that take as long as they need to, but i digress. Thank you very much for the lesson (and an excuse to hassle my brother), i'm so gonna follow you now, it is a decided pleasure to meet someone who really knows what they're talking about, lrzp...
ndreasa
@ZenPyramid @tjehan i don't think the subdivision is x/8, it's got a very strong quarter beat. Considering the first bar might be opening with a 1/4 anacrusis, the piece might be scored in 2/4, which would confirm the intuition that, despite the constant syncopation and irregularity, it's actually very steady and firm in rhythm.
Bera
Sorry, din mail verkar ha försvunnit när jag slängde upp nästa låt.
LLash17
wow
ZenPyramid
@JonsBeard ...apparently, saying 1/anything is meaningless, in the same way that one doesn't count as a factor, 'cos everything can be divided by it. 1/8 is the same as 1/4 or 1/17, etc, as every bar contains but a single crotchet. At least if i understand my brother correctly...